The Vienna Boys Choir (German: Wiener Sängerknaben) has delighted audiences for over 500 years and acts as an unofficial ambassador of Viennese music culture. Dr. Tina Breckwoldt, official historian for the choir, discusses their story — both past and present.

In this episode, you’ll:

• Get an overview of the choir’s history from the past 520+ years

• Learn about Joseph Haydn and Franz Schubert’s time in the choir

• Hear recording excerpts of the Vienna Boys Choir

• Learn what their daily life is like today and what they look for in new members

For the best experience, please watch the video at the top of the page.

Episode Transcript and Timestamps

DANIEL ADAM MALTZ: Grüß Sie from Vienna, Austria.

Welcome to opus 11 of Classical Cake – the podcast where we discuss topics relating to Viennese classical music and Austrian culture while enjoying one of Vienna's delicious cakes. I'm your host Daniel Adam Maltz.

The Vienna Boys Choir is one of the most famous choirs in the world and act as unofficial ambassadors of Vienna's musical tradition. The choir's history stretches back to the Middle Ages... The choir has been delighting audiences for over 520 years.

Today, there are about 100 boys divided into 4 different touring groups; all together, they perform over 300 concerts a year.

My guest today is Dr. Tina Breckwoldt, the official historian for the Vienna Boys Choir, where she is responsible for dramaturgy, PR, and research.

Thank you, Dr. Breckwoldt, for joining me.

DR. TINA BRECKWOLDT: Thank you for having me.

Featured cake: Kardinalschnitte [0:59]

MALTZ: Today's featured cake is Kardinalschnitte, or Cardinal's Cake.

This delicate cake consists of layers of meringue and light biscuit filled with whipped cream with fresh berries or jam.

The name refers to the colors of the catholic church – white and gold – which are reflected in this dessert.

The cake is very light because of the air in the merengue, whipped cream, and the biscuit.

And, it gets a slight crunch due to baking the merengue.

So, let’s dig in.

BRECKWOLDT: Bon appétit.

PRODUCER: Have you had this cake before?

BRECKWOLDT: Actually, no. Never, ever. Interesting. It's actually good.

MALTZ: I like it.

BRECKWOLDT: It's nice. Very nice.

Founding of the choir [1:40]

MALTZ: The Vienna Boys Choir descends from a group founded in 1498. Who started the choir and why?

BRECKWOLDT: Well, normally, we say that the roots of the choir go back to Maximillian I who was, at the time, King of the Holy Roman Empire, not emperor yet. And he sort of had the idea of creating a band of musicians for himself to perform services there on a daily basis.

But actually the history of the choir… the roots are a bit older than that because the Babenberg court in Vienna already had a boys’ choir as early as 1296, I think.

Choir responsibilities under the Habsburgs [2:19]

MALTZ: So you mentioned that the job of the choir during the Habsburg reign was to sing for the church services every day. Were there other responsibilities, as well?

BRECKWOLDT: Absolutely. Well if you want to sort of be a little bit, I dunno, lippy, about it, you would say that they were a propaganda tool in many respects.

They were there to provide music to delight the emperor and his family and the entire court, of course. And they were there to represent at state functions, at Imperial Diets, birthdays, weddings, very importantly.

Think of any Royal wedding: Leopold I, the second, whoever. I mean they all got married to the sound of the choir.

Life in the 1700s to early-1800s [3:02]

MALTZ: So, you mentioned Leopold I and II. I'm curious what was daily life like for the boys during the 1700s and early 1800s?

BRECKWOLDT: I think they were taken care of very, very well.

I think usually through history you would find either very, very well trained musical boys or the sons of noblemen in this position. And, obviously, if the nobility’s involved they're going to look after themselves, aren’t they?

So, I think competition to get into the choir was quite fierce. There were only as many places available as boys have just left. So, I think it was sought after and it meant a lot to people who got it.

Joseph and Michael Haydn in the choir [3:46]

MALTZ: So it is often written that both Joseph Haydn and then his brother, Michael Haydn, were members of the Vienna Boys Choir. But this isn't exactly true is it?

BRECKWOLDT: It's true and it's not true.

At that time — this is the reign of Maria Theresia — the head of the chapel was a man called Georg Reutter. And he was, at the same time, also the head of the music at the cathedral.

And at that time Reutter, probably to save money — he was given a lump sum to deal with all the music — and to save money, he sort of thought, conveniently, he could use the boys in the church choir for anything he had at court as well.

We know there are anecdotes of [Joseph] Haydn at court for Maria Theresia.

And she would have known who he was because there are references that she makes to him singing in particular. At one point, actually saying ‘You won't be able to use him much longer, he sounds awful’ or words to that effect. And I think that indicates very much that he was singing at court.

I think the reason for that is that actually the two choirs had the boys from the same pool at that time.

Franz Schubert in the choir [4:59]

MALTZ: In addition to Joseph Haydn, another major pillar of the First Viennese School, Franz Schubert, was also a member of the Vienna Boys’Choir. What do we know about his time there?

BRECKWOLDT: We definitely know that he was a member of the choir.

He auditioned when he was eight, I think for the first time. And he was not accepted at that time. He was too young.

He auditioned again when he was 11. There were two places open again. And, you know, this fierce competition for these spots.

The two spots had been promised to two boys from noble families. And Salieri, often maligned, heard Franz Schubert sing and said, ‘We're not sticking to that arrangement. He's much better. He gets the spot.’

MALTZ: Wow. So it was Salieri’s word really made that happen.

BRECKWOLDT: Yeah, definitely. And his talent, obviously.

Salieri supported Schubert throughout his time in the choir. Salieri was — even after Schubert had already left the choir — Salieri still gave him lessons in composing at no charge. So, he really furthered the boy’s career, as it were.

But, Schubert… they knew he was musical. And, they put him in the orchestra the boys had at that time, first in the violin section.

Then after a while — they just thought he was so gifted — he started conducting them and that was a school orchestra, quote unquote. But they were good enough to play Beethoven symphonies. Beethoven, apparently, heard that at some point. They must have been quite good at [playing]: that's a taxing, taxing kind of literature to play.

After the Habsburgs [7:10]

MALTZ: When the Habsburg Monarchy was dissolved in 1918, the Boys Choir was essentially disbanded. In 1924 they were resurrected by Monsignor Josef Schnitt. What changes did he make?

BRECKWOLDT: Well, initially, I think maybe Schnitt hadn’t thought much beyond he wanted services again with the boys choir, because initially they didn't really even have a name.

So from then on in 1926, Schnitt kind of lost all of his capital and he couldn't fund this anyway. He couldn't pay for it. So he needed to find a source of income and hit upon the idea of giving concerts outside of chapel. So 1926 was the big year.

And the boys — it was February, Carnaval time — and the boys said ‘Can we do an opera, please?’ Schnitt said ‘Why not?’ So they did Mozart’s Bastien und Bastienne and that was such a success that people were totally wild about it. They had to do a second, third, and fourth concert. And then 1927, that's a year later, they did this in Berlin.

The touring took off completely because the first US tour is in 1931. By this time the boys had been to Paris, they've been to Athens, they've been to Riga, and to Switzerland several times. They'd been to Germany several times and in 1931 they're in the US. That's unheard of at that time. That’s mind-blowing.

Then, he had to establish a second, third and fourth choir to meet the demand, basically.

Updates to the repertoire [8:52]

MALTZ: And how has the repertoire changed times through the years?

BRECKWOLDT: I think the Vienna Boys Choir — certainly in the 20th century — has always had a proud history of singing as much different music as possible and as many different kinds, as many different styles.

And, obviously, in recent years we have branched out a bit because music changes and music evolves.

So to me it was quite surprising to discover that, in the 1930s, the choir recorded their first bit of world music. Nobody knew the term back then. But, there is a piece of Native American song recorded by the Vienna Boys Choir in 1931. It doesn't sound as we would do it now, but it is Native American songs sung in Native American language. And I think that's amazing.

The idea is sort of you go somewhere with your music, you bring the music, song, as your gift to the people that you visit and you take something back. A song.

So you have this idea of music from around the globe very early on. So that's changed because we are now actually doing research. We did something on the Silk Road maybe 10 years ago where we actually looked at field recordings from Afghanistan and Tajikistan and Uzbekistan and took the quote unquote authentic music and tried to see what we could do with that without sort of doing anything to it that wasn't there, but you know, just make it simple and suitable for the boys.

We did something with an Apache song. There's another thing, maybe three years ago, one of the choirs went to Australia to sing with a group of aboriginals and the choir, together with an indigenous Australian choir, was entrusted with the song as the song's guardian. Again, that's certainly new and different.

So, yes, I would say we’ve branched out there and we've branched out in terms of children's operas because we now sometimes write our own. We certainly produce them in the MuTh, which is our own small theater in the second district, and the boys get to dress up, act. So there's a lot for the boys there to amuse themselves and to also learn what it feels like to act and sing at the same time.

Becoming a member [11:58]

MALTZ: Today, how does a boy become a choir member?

BRECKWOLDT: There are many roads to Rome, as it were. So, actually most of the boys nowadays, they find themselves. They either hear the choir or see it on television. And they decide that this is it for them. They want to be in that choir. They have to want it, you know? That's the most important thing.

What it takes is a boy who's interested in joining the choir, who's interested in singing, obviously. We do a lot of that! Who's interested in working with his voice, expressing himself through his voice. Somebody who has a good ear, a feeling for rhythm. That's quite essential.

We can train most other things. Boys in Vienna, ideally, will have come up through our primary school, which is based in Vienna, so that's easy.

Boys from elsewhere, we expect them to come and join our school in fourth grade.

But, boys can audition pretty much anywhere. Boys have auditioned on tour. We had boys from Singapore who sent us a YouTube clip and we accepted them.

MALTZ: And, how many openings come up a year, roughly?

BRECKWOLDT: Roughly? I think we need between 27 and 30 boys every year.

A day in the life [13:19]

MALTZ: And the boys live in the Augarten Palace where the school is. So, what is their daily life like?

BRECKWOLDT: Well, they get up… or are woken up, gently, just before seven. They probably roll out of bed and into the dining hall — hopefully by way of the shower. They have breakfast, which they usually hoover — boys are very fast eaters.

And then they go to school on the premises. They have four lessons of 45 minutes each in the main subjects. English, German, maths: the key subjects. And then they have a longer break during which they can come for a Jause (snack), have some cake or whatever's on offer.

Then they have two hours of choir practice, again with a break in the middle. And at the end of the choir practice, it's just before 1, they meet with their tutors, they hear the news of the day and what else is planned for the day and then they have lunch and the lunch break is from 1 to 2:30.

Most boys will use it to play football, soccer. Some will wander round the park or play cops and robbers or whatever so they can do whatever they like then. In between 2:30 and about 5:45 there's another four lessons, academic lessons of subjects like history, biology, sports, obviously. And they also have their homework in those four afternoon lessons.

There's a break again for food, don't know why! And at six o'clock it's dinner and after that, they’re free until 9 or 9:30, depending on how old they are, to go to bed. The younger ones go to bed at 9 and the older ones go to bed at 9:30. And that's it. So, that's a normal day in Vienna.

On tour, it's totally different, of course.

On tour [15:22]

MALTZ: How often do they tour? How long would they spend on the road?

BRECKWOLDT: Each choir spends between 10 and 11 weeks on tour and these 10 or 11 weeks are taken out of the academic year. They're not taken out of their holiday time. They don’t go on tour on holidays.

So it's usually somebody who's on the road and the way we're able to do this is because touring is part of our curriculum, officially.

So when we're on tour, the boys have that on their agenda. They don't have any academic lessons. They don't do maths on tour.

They are supposed to get to know the country they’re in, they're supposed to learn the language a bit or just be immersed in the cultures.

It usually includes — again, main topic — the food. But also, obviously to meet people, to play, to see the sights, to really get to know a country in a more direct way than a tourist can.

MALTZ: It must be a wonderful experience for these young boys.

BRECKWOLDT: I think it is. I mean, it's a very intense life and… when you meet them on tour, they're all on one big adventure. Sort of thriving on the energy.

But that's why the boys who come to audition need to be prepared for that. We need adventurous boys. That's basically it. So it makes for more interesting music.

When voices break [17:25]

MALTZ: What happens to alumni of the Vienna Boys Choir? Do they come back later as a teacher or mentor?

BRECKWOLDT: Yes, some do. Quite a few actually become musicians or… choose a profession that is sort of closely associated with stage, performing. We have about 25% to 30% who actually become musicians. That's a high turnout, I think.

So, after their voices change in grade 8, which is quite normal — yeah, that's just the way it goes, isn't it? So they are on tour and they can still contribute to the choir. They have the experience, they know the notes. They may sound slightly different, but that doesn't matter. It's more about team thinking. It's more about making sure that the whole thing works as it should, as a team, as a group.

Because a voice change is just a natural thing that just happens, Nobody can help it. It just happens.

But, after grade 8, we have, from grade 9 to grade 12, a senior high school program for boys and girls and most of the choristers actually go on to do that. So, that's the first thing that happens. They now go on in our school and can continue right up to university and it's very nice to see that, that they actually want to stay.

Or those that don't, they do come back and say hello and it seems it's a nice community. That's important because we have to rely on other people, don't we? As John Donne said, ‘No one is an island.’

Suggested resources to learn more [19:12]

It is the traditions that help to define a culture throughout time. When you are in Vienna, I highly recommend attending a Sunday mass at the Hofkapelle, the former chapel for the imperial Habsburg family.

The boys sing with members of the Vienna Philharmonic and the Men's Choir of the State Opera. Even if you aren't Catholic, it is an experience that immerses you in over 500 years of Viennese musical culture.